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Approaches, IF / VTF

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I agree that we should train the way we want to fly. That still includes tune, identify, and verify the next waypoint before proceeding anywhere. We now have many ways to tune and identify, but it is still important that we verify that we are going where we want to go. Regardless of how many waypoints are in any flight plan, it is important that we "tune, identify and verify". If I'm planning a trip to Houston, I don't plan to fly four or six approaches at my destination. If I proceed to my alternate, there will be lots of time to reprogram i.

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I agree that we should train the way we want to fly. That still includes tune, identify, and verify the next waypoint before proceeding anywhere. We now have many ways to tune and identify, but it is still important that we verify that we are going where we want to go. Regardless of how many waypoints are in any flight plan, it is important that we "tune, identify and verify". If I'm planning a trip to Houston, I don't plan to fly four or six approaches at my destination.

If I proceed to my alternate, there will be lots of time to reprogram i. Neither of those things are true if I'm out to practice approaches near my home airport. That leaves essentially no time for reprogramming a flight management system which I didn't have anyway. The point of the training flight was to brush the rust off the fine motor skills needed to fly a good approach. Not to practice the programming of the avionics. Maybe things will be different now that I am starting to fly GPS approaches, but I think the iPad simulator is probably a better tool for learning the avionics.

I can pause the experience whenever I need to. I always expect to miss. I have enough to think about the approach ahead of me and the miss to even think of pre-programming another approach. What makes you think that the approach at the alternate will be the approach they are working at the moment. Weather obviously deteriorated below the destination airport resulting in a miss, its likely your alternate will have different weather. This is what proficiency does. Some one earlier said that its for flight motor skills.

Couldn't disagree anymore. Practicing in the clouds is where you get the flow of setting up radios, GPS, etc for approaches. You are actually short changing yourself setting up all these approaches in advanced. I rarely, if ever, know what approach is being used at even the destination let alone the alternate. All it takes is a wind shift. Secondly, the alternate should not be so close to the destination that you are in a hurry up situation.

You can collect your thoughts in the hold at the missed or tell ATC you want to be vectored for time. There is no doubt that all this fancy new stuff introduces the potential for work load reduction, but we still need to stay in touch with what is happening. I have been flying IFR regularly since My technique is fairly well established, but I hope I am always open to new ideas. I will wait to judge how I feel about this until I try it out.

But I am intrigued by the idea of a new way to operate. I never before considered putting my destination into the fight plan more than once so that I could load multiple approaches.

I don't usually make my alternate part of my flight plan, but that too is an interesting idea. So even without having made a final decision, I am excited by the possibility of a better way to do things. If it's not better, I won't use it. To be honest, I don't do a lot of IFR flying and not many approaches. Approaches to anything near minimums are count-on-a-hand events. New Posts. Members Profile. Post Reply. BTW, what do you find the quickest way to delete an approach? The only way I've found is to highlight the destination airport on the flight plan page and scroll to the little box which list the approach and hit CLR.

Any others? This method does not seam to work. You don't have to delete the approach. I believe adding a dedicated VTF button is in the database. Not sure if this is a bug After flying several more approaches at differnet airports I found that I needed to only load one airport and one approach. To delete I found that deleting the entire active route and starting over was the quickest way.

I have loaded multiple approaches at different airports practice IFR a number of times, that is one of the great conveniences of the IFDs. Pressing the PROC key multiple times, will cycle between the various approaches and arrivals you may have added, to any of the airports. One note, if, and only if, you are flying direct to an airport, if you add an approach, the approach and a second instance of the airport waypoint will be added AFTER the current airport waypoint.

That might be tripping you up as well. If you have an intermediate waypoint, then the approach will slot in where it should "logically". Individual approaches can be deleted by selecting the airport waypoint in the FMS page, highlighting the noted approach, and hitting CLR.

There can be issues loading multiple approaches if they have combined waypoints, example would be if the missed approach hold waypoint is the same as the IAF for the next approach. To be honest, I'm disappointed in the response I've had regarding the post I wrote up. I believe it's actually an issue because you can "lose" primary GPS navigation while on an approach near the mountains.

Thank you for the input. FMS tab while on the airport item, select the app field where the approach is shown the LSK will then provide an option to delete the approach.

Get a ground power unit, hook it up, and play. You installer should be happy to loan you one, if you don't want to spring for one. The simulator is good too, but is not quite the same as hands on in your plane. It is very good that you read the manual, it is well written, and does help. Unfortunately many just skip over doing that. Pat, my post was in no way meant to drive you away from Avidyne products. I really like my and have flown IMC approaches with my family on board.

It also took me some time before I was comfortable trusting it in IMC, but it also took me time to trust any new hardware. I've done a lot of comparisons between the Garmin and and felt the was a better unit. I agree with not trusting your life to something you don't understand so my suggestion is as others have said and to spend time learning the unit. I think the sim is the best way to learn the unit. I'm not sure how much better a power cart is than the sim.

The sim can "fly" so you can use it to test things out. The only limitation of the sim is that it's not interfaced with the rest of the airplane so you can't fly away from the flight plan, see CDI indications, etc, but it's a pretty complete sim.

There has been only 1 very minor difference I've found between the sim and the real box entering data into the density calculator - real box worked as expected. One nice thing about Avidyne is that you can post things here and Avidyne will review and consider your feedback - maybe incorporate into future builds.

When I said I wasn't happy with the response from Avidyne, I was hoping that would respark conversation on that issue and that Avidyne would take a longer look at what I was trying to highlight and improve the product even further, not to scare people away from the unit.

When I add a second approach, it always wants to replace the existing approach. Am I missing something here? Also, when you select the airport, then press PROC and select the approach, you still have to press the LSK to delete the approach just to clarify.

Pressing on the app field of the airport and pressing LSK to delete approach seems faster. To add to this, if you want multiple approaches to the same airport, add the airport multiple times and then an approach for each. That sounds like an accident waiting to happen.

Why would you want to do that? Practice approaches. I could load up four approaches before the flight and then fly them all without reprogramming.

DavidBunin wrote: Practice approaches. I'll second that. It'd be one less thing to have to deal with in my practice approaches during my IFR training and subsequent currency work once I get the checkride out of the way.

Isn't the whole idea to train the way you fly and fly the way you train. Seems kind of artificial to set up all these approaches beforehand when working the unit in flight while setting up for the approach is how it really works. I agree with practicing like you fly. I want to have my alternate programmed in before starting the primary approach - while the workload is low and I'm at altitude.

I think it's great to have this capability. I have a feeling people got used to not flying this way simply because they couldn't. Comment is right on the mark. You always want to be as ahead of the plane as possible. It is a new paradigm, at least in little planes. Happy Skies, Old Bob.

DavidBunin wrote: If I proceed to my alternate, there will be lots of time to reprogram i.

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